Used cars for sale near Tecumseh, MI
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Ash
- Int. color
- Jet Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 15-20
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 10-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 5.3L V8 16V GDI OHV
- Stock #
- 6C177N
- VIN
- 1GNSKNKD5PR472482
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- Premium Sound System
- Satellite Radio
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Roof Rack
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Brake Assist
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
LaFontaine Chevrolet of DexterReviews
2023 Chevrolet Tahoe review
I have a 2023 Tahoe after driving a Mercedes ML350. Husband wanted something bigger. While I really like my Tahoe, I do have a few complaints. The side mirror moves to a weird position inside the case every time I start the car and the preset button does not move it back, I have to reset it manually. I have had this "fixed" once only for it to start doing it again. I hate the auto stop option and am trying to train myself to push the button to turn it off whenever I get in it. The breaks squeal when stopping, I absolutely hate it! Was told since break pads used to be asbestos so they do not use them anymore and now it is metal on metal and living in a humid area makes them rust and that's what make them squeal. Was told to hard stop every so often to knock of the rust. What??? And my biggest complaint, it will not read my text messages to me without and internet plan. Why will it connect to my phone for calls, maps and music but won't read messages?? One of the biggest causes of wrecks, people trying to text while driving. Just one more way to get more money from us as if we didn't pay a fortune for the vehicle itself.
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Onyx Black
- Int. color
- Jet Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 17-22
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic 6-Speed
- Engine
- EcoTec3 5.3L V-8 gasoline direct injection, variable valve contr
- Stock #
- 169130
- VIN
- 1GTV2MEC0GZ169130
Features
- Convenience
- Keyless Entry
- Navigation System
- Entertainment
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- CD Player
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Tow Hooks
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Lane Departure Warning
- Stability Control
Dealer
Mighty MotorsReviews
2016 GMC Sierra 1500 review
I've owned this GMC Sierra 1500 All Terrain since it was 8 months old. With the exception of two warranty issues (failing power brake vacuum pump and transmission electrical harness), I have been totally happy with this truck. Up until now, my 1996 Chevrolet K1500 Silverado with it's 5.7L Vortec engine was my favorite truck of all time, this GMC (5.3L LS engine, 8 speed automatice) has earned the top spot now of my all time favorite truck. It is comfortable to drive, and runs as good as the day I bought it over 5+ years ago. I've got 71.5K miles on it. My biggest issue is I wished it had the 6.2L engine for better towing capabilities. Other than that ... love this truck.
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Gray
- Int. color
- Gray
- Transmission
- 3 Speed Automatic
- Stock #
- 3083-DFW
- VIN
- 136800K219956
Dealer
Gateway Classic CarsReviews
Gateway Classic Cars review
Overall everything went well. The requesting of the original owner for the vehicle keys was never done as I was never notified of a reply.
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Black
- Int. color
- Black
- Transmission
- 4 Speed Manual
- Stock #
- 3055-DFW
- VIN
- FJ40254244
Features
- Exterior
- Tow Hooks
Dealer
Gateway Classic CarsReviews
Gateway Classic Cars review
They were super helpful, but never found what I was looking for. Gateway said they would kept looking for me.
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$21,500
Est. $389/mo Northland Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAM
Check Availability Quick view Vehicle Information
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 23-29
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic CVT
- Engine
- 2.0L I4 16V MPFI DOHC
- Stock #
- P4913
- VIN
- JA4ARUAU1RU008756
Features
- Convenience
- Keyless Entry
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Lane Departure Warning
- Stability Control
Dealer
Northland Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAMReviews
Northland Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAM review
Max was extremely helpful from the first time i reached out , until the day he drove half way to grand rapids so we didnt have to drive back to detroit. The process was smooth, and his manager worked with me to get the price and vehicle i wanted. I would recommend them again without hesitation.
2024 Mitsubishi Outlander Sport review
This is the most wonderful car. Just the right size SUV for my needs. I will be staying in the Mitsubishi Family and buy a new one again.
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Granite Crystal Clearcoat Metallic
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-28
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 9-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 3.6L V6 24V MPFI DOHC
- Stock #
- L26010A
- VIN
- 2C4RC1BG7JR187419
Features
- Convenience
- Keyless Start
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- Rear Seat Entertainment
- Satellite Radio
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Roof Rack
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Gorno FordReviews
Gorno Ford review
Bought used Escape in 2024. Totaled 3/22. New Escape 4/26. Christian James was amazing in getting me deals. I went back yesterday to inquire about canceling my extended warranty on the previous Escape ,along with the tire warranty. I didn't need to call a 3rd party, he took care of everything. Moreover, I WILL be getting more money back. GREAT TEAMMEMBER!!!!!!
2018 Chrysler Pacifica review
I bought my van new. It has 150k mikes and I have only had very minor issues with it. It has been a reliable source of transportation for me as I drive long distances several times a year. I particularly love the way the seats go into the floor. I have hauled so much stuff. I love my van.
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Starlight
- Int. color
- Black Onyx
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 16-22
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 10-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 3.5L V6 24V PDI DOHC Twin Turbo
- Stock #
- 65557
- VIN
- 5LMJJ2LG1PEL06930
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Automatic Parking
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Folding Mirrors
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Premium Sound System
- Satellite Radio
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Varsity LincolnReviews
Varsity Lincoln review
This is a great service department!!They are kind and really make us feel like they care about us!! Cynthia Walton and Chris were amazing and helpful!! They make it happen with a smile!!! Thanks! Janice
2023 Lincoln Navigator review
More power than a v8. Rides like a dream. Every luxury you could want. This car has never given us any problems and is absolutely the best for a long road trip.
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$73,743
Est. $1,333/mo Hines Park Lincoln
Check Availability Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Black Metallic
- Int. color
- Black Onyx w/Brandy Stitch
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 16-22
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- 3.5L V-6 port/direct injection, DOHC, variable valve control, tw
- Stock #
- 2414F
- VIN
- 5LMJJ2TG3REL02414
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Cooled Seats
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Tow Hitch
- Tow Hooks
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Hines Park LincolnReviews
Hines Park Lincoln review
The whole long distance purchase went very smoothly. Very professional and efficient team. We did drive up to pick up our new car and were given a thorough briefing and demonstration on our car. Thank you Greg for a wonderful experience and the knowledge you gave me made me feel comfortable enough to drive home.
2024 Lincoln Navigator review
I purchased 2024 Lincoln Navigator few weeks ago. After researching the Mercedes GLS 450, BMW X7, Audi Q7, my intention was to purchase the Mercedes GLS 450. On the day to make a decision, I decided to test drive the Lincoln Navigator. Once inside the Navigator, the interior space, materials, and comfort immediately put the brakes on the Mercedes. The seats for the driver and passenger were the most comfortable I'd sat in (30 way adjustable). The amount for wood detail, gave the cabin a rich feel. Lincoln's decision to keep buttons and nobs to control basic functions like climate control, music volume and seat comfort like heating and ventilation were a real plus. The trend recently is for auto makers to use larger digital touch screens to control many if not all the functions in the car. ( Range Rover sport, Telsa SUV's). The second row captain chairs with the center consul felt more like a lounge area, plenty of room. The main difference between the cars I evaluated was the ride. I found that I liked the higher and larger driving presence on the road. I will say the Mercedes GLS had a smoother ride and the BMW had a more agile driving experience. However , the independent suspension system with road anticipation technology in the Navigator provided a smooth and comfortable ride. The technology on board the Navigator make driving this full size SUV very easy. At the end of the day, I realized, I wanted a comfortable, spacious, well appointed SUV, and Lincoln Navigator "checked" all the boxes.
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Ebony Twilight Metallic
- Int. color
- Ebony w/Ebony Accents
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 22-29
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 9-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 2L I-4 gasoline direct injection, DOHC, variable valve control,
- Stock #
- VZ157A
- VIN
- LRBFZSR44PD153743
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Automatic Parking
- Cooled Seats
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Premium Sound System
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
Perrysburg AutomallReviews
Perrysburg Automall review
Traveling from Lewes, DE to Fargo, ND for a family reunion on a very tight timeline a belt in one of our tires failed. We luckily found this wonderful dealership nearby! Nathan in the service center & their excellent technicians fit us into their schedule that day!!! The sales staff made our stay in their show room a very friendly & accommodating experience traveling with a small dog. We can’t thank everyone enough for your excellent service & kindness during this stressful situation. We made it to the reunion thanks to all of you!!! 😎 Tina, Lynn, & Carly 🚙🐩
2023 Buick Envision review
Just had my first major car repair at 44k miles. Some steering sensor that could cause me to lose power steering. Had I not had the extended warranty I would be responsible for the $5k repair bill. We are barely out of the manufacturers warranty! Other than that, I love this car but already expecting to get rid of in the next year due to the unknown.
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Infinite Black Metallic
- Int. color
- Ebony
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 17-24
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 10-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 3.0L V6 24V GDI DOHC Twin Turbo
- Stock #
- 65479
- VIN
- 5LM5J7XC0PGL33210
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Folding Mirrors
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Premium Sound System
- Satellite Radio
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Varsity LincolnReviews
Varsity Lincoln review
Rudy and staff hands down the best in the business not only with there quality of work but more importantly communication!! I highly recommend Variety Collision for any make or model!!
2023 Lincoln Aviator review
Such a beauty. Just traded in my 2019 430i and my 2021 xi for a 23 Black Belt white Lincoln Aviator. But, I found out I bought a car that has a recall awaiting for it's correction sometime soon. Don't know when it well fixed, hope very soon. What a bummer. Only 1 in the nation with that color exterior and interior, and I just bought it. Love the buttons on the grill. The camel and black exterior.
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$79,746
Est. $1,441/mo Hines Park Lincoln
Check Availability Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Red Mist Metallic Tintcoat
- Int. color
- Natural
- Drivetrain
- Rear-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 16-24
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- 6.2L V-8 gasoline direct injection, variable valve control, prem
- Stock #
- 111377U
- VIN
- 1G1YC2D46S5111377
Features
- Convenience
- Cooled Seats
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- Premium Sound System
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
Hines Park LincolnReviews
Hines Park Lincoln review
Always get excellent service at Hines Park Lincoln and Rebecca takes good care of me. Enjoy the coffee and snacks while I wait. I highly recommend them.
2025 Chevrolet Corvette review
WOW…just WOW! Have owned several corvettes, currently have three, and this Z06 is really nice. The performance is aboveboard. And it’s a real neck turner.
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$46,746
Est. $845/mo Hines Park Lincoln
Check Availability Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Pristine White Metallic Tri-Coat
- Int. color
- Ebony
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 17-24
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- EcoBoost 3L V-6 gasoline direct injection, DOHC, variable valve
- Stock #
- 3034L
- VIN
- 5LM5J7XC9PGL27566
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Cooled Seats
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Hines Park LincolnReviews
Hines Park Lincoln review
Since moving to the area five years ago, HPL is the only place we've serviced and maintained our vehicles at. They do a fantastic job in every way and the dealership is always spotless and friendly. Jerry, the service writer, is fantastic to work with.
2023 Lincoln Aviator review
We bought the standard model and now wish we had gone up to the Reserve level as some of the luxury options that we assumed came with the Lincoln name were missing.
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Steel / Graphite
- Int. color
- Beige
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-24
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 8-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 3.8L V6 24V GDI DOHC
- Stock #
- SU889012P
- VIN
- KM8R7DGE7SU889012
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Cooled Seats
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Premium Sound System
- Satellite Radio
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Suburban HondaReviews
Suburban Honda review
A great all around experience, from the purchase to the delivery.
2025 Hyundai PALISADE review
We love our new vehicle!! Very comfortable and it drives great!! Tons of room. Safety features are perfect. We are extremely happy with our purchase
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$43,998
Est. $795/mo Perrysburg Automall
Check Availability Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Onyx Black Metallic
- Int. color
- Charcoal
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 22-28
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic with Geartronic
- Engine
- 2L I-4 gasoline direct injection, DOHC, variable valve control,
- Stock #
- VZ253
- VIN
- YV4L12RM3R1712437
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Cooled Seats
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Premium Sound System
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Roof Rack
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
Perrysburg AutomallReviews
Perrysburg Automall review
They took me to work so I could leave my vehicle for service. Great service for the time I have available for the appointment schedule!
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Special Order Color
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 21-26
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 8-Speed Automatic Sport
- Engine
- 3L I-6 gasoline direct injection, DOHC, Double VANOS variable va
- Stock #
- CP397800
- VIN
- 5UX83DP0XR9V27901
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- Premium Sound System
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
BMW of Farmington HillsReviews
BMW of Farmington Hills review
I have been dreading the car buying market because, for the last couple of years, the shadiness of dealers was taken to a whole new level. I had my name on a waitlist for a car, and it didn't seem like they were getting any anytime soon, so my husband told me I needed to make a decision. So, I was looking at a Mercedes, and my student mentioned that the new BMW X1 was worth checking out. I am SO glad that I did. We walked into the dealership, and were warmly greeted by the front desk. Shannon Polsgrove greeted us, and offered to help us. I told her what I wanted and asked her if we could build one out. She was so positive, fun, helpful, kind, and supportive throughout the whole process. She made me feel like I was ordering their top car in the dealership, and was patient with all of my questions. She gave her honest opinion about color and build, and the experience that I had been dreading for months turned into a fun and happy one, and I built a car that I am super excited about, after two years of not being excited about any. We also met the manager, Steve Williams, who was just as friendly and patient. Mind you, it was past closing at this point, and neither of them were rushing us, even with knowing that we still had the Mercedes to look at. We left and went to the dealership down the road, and had the exact opposite experience. I won't get into details here, but it solidified my decision that BMW of Farmington Hills was the relationship I wanted to create. We called the next day and placed a deposit, and as promised, we placed our order with the exact build, and were immediately given a production number, where we could track our truck. I have been told by so many dealerships that you don't get to pick anymore, and you get whatever comes in, and I'm happy to say, that is not the case with this dealership. Everything was stress-free and positive, and I can't wait till my car comes in! I have been telling everyone about my experience, because it really was unlike any car experience I've ever had! They have a customer for life with me! And now my family and friends are all interested in a BMW.
2024 BMW X3 review
Only have been driving the car for a week, but it is clearly the best SUV I have experienced. My wife drives the Mercedes 300 - a fine car as well, but I have always preferred BMY engine performance and handling. The X3 is simply a pleasure to drive.
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Black
- Int. color
- Jet Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 15-21
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 6-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 5.3L V8 16V GDI OHV
- Stock #
- C4751A
- VIN
- 1GKS2AKC8LR103610
Features
- Convenience
- Keyless Entry
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- CD Player
- Premium Sound System
- Satellite Radio
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Northland Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAMReviews
Northland Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAM review
I was actually shopping for a used car and left with a brand new 2020! My first time buying a brand new vehicle. I worked with Brenda and Mike. The were fast and no fooling around at all. Very attentive to my needs and the payment I could afford. I have already recommended them to a co worker.
2020 GMC Yukon review
Excellent and reliable, only thing buyers have to do is buy a AFM disabler that you can stick into OBD2 port to avoid lifter failure (longer story, nobody wants a V8 to run in V4)
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