Used minivans for sale near Alpine, CA under $70,000
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$29,990
Est. $551/mo Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAM
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright White
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-28
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Pentastar 3.6L V-6 DOHC, VVT variable valve control, regular gas
- Stock #
- 25465PG
- VIN
- 2C4RC1BG0TR261184
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAMReviews
Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAM review
If you’re in the market for a new car, I would highly recommend coming here. By far, the best customer service experience I've ever had at a car deal ship. Sam was amazing in Helping us find a car that best fit all our needs. He went above and beyond to make sure we got everything we wanted and needed. We were trying to decide between two cars and he brought them both out and gave us time to look over both cars without him hovering over our shoulders or trying to influence our decision. Fernando in finance was awesome helping us with finalize our paperwork. Gary the Sales Manager helped us get the car we wanted right in our budget and exceeded our expectations. If you're looking for a great car buying experience, Go to Carl Burger. The team is very attentive to all your needs and wants. Tell them I sent ya and they will hook you up.
2026 Chrysler Pacifica review
Great car. I also have a 2018 with 100K plus miles that has had zero problems. Comfortable, good. fuel economy and can haul a lot of stuff.
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$28,990
Est. $533/mo Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAM
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Diamond Black Crystal Pearlcoat
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-28
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Pentastar 3.6L V-6 DOHC, VVT variable valve control, regular gas
- Stock #
- 25435PG
- VIN
- 2C4RC1BG6TR261285
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAMReviews
Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAM review
Just show up prepared. I had a USAA promo certificate. They offer many additional incentives. Financed there with a low rate local credit union. Overall great
2026 Chrysler Pacifica review
Big delay in the apple Carplay starting up. Plus the adaptive cruise control is not smooth at all. We have a 2019 Toyota Camry and its ACC is much smoother than the one in the 2026 Pacifica. The ride itself is comfortable. We had 5 adults and everyone had plenty of room.
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$29,990
Est. $551/mo Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAM
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright White
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-28
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Pentastar 3.6L V-6 DOHC, VVT variable valve control, regular gas
- Stock #
- 25465PG
- VIN
- 2C4RC1BG0TR261184
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAMReviews
Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAM review
If you’re in the market for a new car, I would highly recommend coming here. By far, the best customer service experience I've ever had at a car deal ship. Sam was amazing in Helping us find a car that best fit all our needs. He went above and beyond to make sure we got everything we wanted and needed. We were trying to decide between two cars and he brought them both out and gave us time to look over both cars without him hovering over our shoulders or trying to influence our decision. Fernando in finance was awesome helping us with finalize our paperwork. Gary the Sales Manager helped us get the car we wanted right in our budget and exceeded our expectations. If you're looking for a great car buying experience, Go to Carl Burger. The team is very attentive to all your needs and wants. Tell them I sent ya and they will hook you up.
2026 Chrysler Pacifica review
Great car. I also have a 2018 with 100K plus miles that has had zero problems. Comfortable, good. fuel economy and can haul a lot of stuff.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Crystal Black Pearl
- Int. color
- Black
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 10 Speed Automatic
- Stock #
- 20862
- VIN
- 5FNRL6H60SB078602
Dealer
Honda of El CajonReviews
Honda of El Cajon review
My experience here was nothing short of amazing.I was welcomed at every entrance and greeted with a smile. The environment is clean and quiet.
2025 Honda Odyssey review
Abe was amazing right off the bat. He had the van ready for me to test drive after communicating via email and coordinating a schedule around my little ones needs. We weighed options on models, colors, etc, and made my trade in experience easy peasy.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Platinum White Pearl
- Int. color
- Black
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 10 Speed Automatic
- Stock #
- S00129A
- VIN
- 5FNRL6H62RB048009
Dealer
Honda of El CajonReviews
Honda of El Cajon review
LAURA es una exelente empleada me a brindado un exelente servicio rapido y es muy dedicada a hacer un trabajo impecable por todo gracias Laura
2024 Honda Odyssey review
An excellent comfortable kid hauler. Or if you prefer to haul a furniture it will get the job done better than a pickup truck. We love our Odyssey. This is our third Odyssey having owned a 2007. 2013 and now a 2024.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Solar Silver Metallic
- Int. color
- Gray
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 10 Speed Automatic
- Stock #
- R02732A
- VIN
- 5FNRL6H83SB017620
Dealer
Honda of El CajonReviews
Honda of El Cajon review
The service advisor is very professional. And of course our favorite mechanic, Stephen , always go above and beyond in explaining what he has done and what needs to done on our vehicles. Dillon and Stephen awesome team!
2025 Honda Odyssey review
This is our fourth and couldn't think of riding in anything other. Have spent ZERO on anything other than normal maintenance. Oil change, Tires, Battery. Love HONDA!
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Silver
- Int. color
- Beige
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 18-25
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- A/T
- Engine
- 244.0HP 3.8L V6 Cylinder Engine Gasoline Fuel
- VIN
- KNDMB233966102688
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Entertainment
- CD Player
- DVD Player
- Rear Seat Entertainment
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Brake Assist
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Reviews
2006 Kia Sedona review
Hit a deer at night going about 75. No injuries the vehicle took the hit and took us to a safe place. I would recommend this vehicle to everyone. Feel safe driving it.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Brown
- Int. color
- Beige
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 18-25
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- A/T
- Engine
- 240.0HP 3.5L V6 Cylinder Engine Gasoline Fuel
- VIN
- 5FNRL18983B005850
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Entertainment
- Premium Sound System
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Roof Rack
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Tow Hitch
Reviews
2003 Honda Odyssey review
Outstanding Van. We bought this van brand new and just passed 250K miles. Same motor and transmission. I've replaced radiator at 230K miles and alternator at 200K miles. Everything else was routine maint. I will keep driving it until it dies.
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$30,990
Est. $569/mo Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAM
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright White
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-28
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Pentastar 3.6L V-6 DOHC, VVT variable valve control, regular gas
- Stock #
- 25466PG
- VIN
- 2C4RC1BG5TR267353
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAMReviews
Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAM review
I was very pleased on my experience at this dealership. I did have a good buying experience and well sales experience, was avail to drive the vehicle before purchase gave me a good deal and was avail to get approve.
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$54,697
Est. $1,005/mo Mercedes-Benz of Escondido
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Metal
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 36-36
- Fuel type
- Hybrid
- Transmission
- Automatic CVT
- Engine
- 2.5L I4 16V PDI DOHC Hybrid
- Stock #
- S340171P
- VIN
- 5TDXRKEC9TS340171
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- Premium Sound System
- Satellite Radio
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Mercedes-Benz of EscondidoReviews
Mercedes-Benz of Escondido review
Came in to take a look at some cars. Everyone was very helpful and they had a lot more cars than any dealer I’ve been to in a while. Ask for Jake, he’s the man!
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$29,990
Est. $551/mo Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAM
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright White
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-28
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Pentastar 3.6L V-6 DOHC, VVT variable valve control, regular gas
- Stock #
- 25465PG
- VIN
- 2C4RC1BG0TR261184
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAMReviews
Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAM review
If you’re in the market for a new car, I would highly recommend coming here. By far, the best customer service experience I've ever had at a car deal ship. Sam was amazing in Helping us find a car that best fit all our needs. He went above and beyond to make sure we got everything we wanted and needed. We were trying to decide between two cars and he brought them both out and gave us time to look over both cars without him hovering over our shoulders or trying to influence our decision. Fernando in finance was awesome helping us with finalize our paperwork. Gary the Sales Manager helped us get the car we wanted right in our budget and exceeded our expectations. If you're looking for a great car buying experience, Go to Carl Burger. The team is very attentive to all your needs and wants. Tell them I sent ya and they will hook you up.
2026 Chrysler Pacifica review
Great car. I also have a 2018 with 100K plus miles that has had zero problems. Comfortable, good. fuel economy and can haul a lot of stuff.
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$44,382
New 2027 Chrysler Pacifica L -
$30,990
Est. $569/mo Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAM
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright White
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-28
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Pentastar 3.6L V-6 DOHC, VVT variable valve control, regular gas
- Stock #
- 25466PG
- VIN
- 2C4RC1BG5TR267353
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAMReviews
Carl Burger's Dodge Chrysler Jeep RAM review
I was very pleased on my experience at this dealership. I did have a good buying experience and well sales experience, was avail to drive the vehicle before purchase gave me a good deal and was avail to get approve.
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-
Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright White Clearcoat
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-28
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Pentastar 3.6L V-6 DOHC, VVT variable valve control, regular gas
- Stock #
- 0P853067
- VIN
- 2C4RC1GG7SR562302
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Cooled Seats
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Roof Rack
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Right HondaReviews
Right Honda review
Very good experience very friendly sales personnel and very helpful would not hesitate to recommend them
2025 Chrysler Pacifica review
Nice vehicle. We purchased new...price was one reason why compared to other vans. Our old vehicle was a Town & Country, this vehicle has some pleasant surprises. Better power and a better ride. Handling & response are very good, not clumsy like some vans. Great safety features throughout the vehicle. Things I don't like... the power rear side flare windows are gone and there isn't as much storage . In order to get better storage, you have to upgrade to higher end models. No overhead storage panel in some models. I certainly don't like the fact that there is no spare tire anymore but I know that the car industry is moving that way, which is just a cost saving measure for them. Door protection side strips have disappeared - they used to just be a standard item but now, are an "option", which is pretty lame. Roof pillars tend to cause more obstruction in my view as I'm driving but the Pacifica has alert safety features that are helpful. Information screen is pretty easy on Chrysler. Overall, its a nice vehicle.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Brilliant Black Crystal Pearlcoat
- Int. color
- Black/Alloy/Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-28
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 9-Speed 948TE Automatic
- Engine
- 3.6L V-6 DOHC, VVT variable valve control, regular gasoline, eng
- Stock #
- 20729
- VIN
- 2C4RC1BG0NR146376
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Roof Rack
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Rollit MotorsReviews
Rollit Motors review
contacted me gave me the info on the freestar i decided it was not the right van for me
2022 Chrysler Pacifica review
I have owned dozens of cars, trucks and minivans. This vehicle is the most versatile of them all. The V6 AWD is great on the hwy. And the steering is nimble in street driving. I would recommend to anyone to purchase. Stow and Go seats are best in class.
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$24,990
Est. $459/mo AutoNation Volkswagen Carlsbad
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Velvet Red Pearlcoat
- Int. color
- Caramel/Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- Fuel type
- Hybrid
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Pentastar 3.6L V-6 DOHC, variable valve control, regular gasolin
- Stock #
- NR102550
- VIN
- 2C4RC1N77NR102550
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Automatic Parking
- Cooled Seats
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Folding Mirrors
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Premium Sound System
- Rear Seat Entertainment
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
AutoNation Volkswagen CarlsbadReviews
AutoNation Volkswagen Carlsbad review
Mathew, Greg, Erick and Kevin were outstanding to work with. They made the new car buying process painless. They were not high pressure and helped with my needs and worked inside my budget. They even assisted with my trade-in.
2022 Chrysler Pacifica review
Very clever stow away seats make it like an enclosed truck. Comfortable. Handles and accelerates better than I expected. We'll see about reliability. I would have liked to get more of the extra cost options.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright White Clearcoat
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-28
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Pentastar 3.6L V-6 DOHC, VVT variable valve control, regular gas
- Stock #
- 55055276
- VIN
- 2C4RC1GG6RR124414
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Cooled Seats
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Avis Car Sales VistaReviews
Avis Car Sales Vista review
Very straight forward pricing and very communicative representatives! I worked with Greg, very honest and a great listener. I had a lot of contingencies for my car purchase and he met them all with respectful consideration. 10/10 would recommend!
2024 Chrysler Pacifica review
This car is very nice very comfortable got power jet black inside white and black and it only had 42,000 mi we love the car thank you
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Diamond Black Crystal Pearlcoat
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-28
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Pentastar 3.6L V-6 DOHC, VVT variable valve control, regular gas
- Stock #
- 58964673
- VIN
- 2C4RC1BG3TR168661
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Avis Car Sales Vista -
Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright White Clearcoat
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-28
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Pentastar 3.6L V-6 DOHC, VVT variable valve control, regular gas
- Stock #
- 52104345
- VIN
- 2C4RC1BG8PR546611
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Avis Car Sales VistaReviews
2023 Chrysler Pacifica review
Andrick was very nice and very helpful. I don't have the best credit or a good down payment but he did everything possible to get me into a car. Very helpful!
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