Used 2017 RAM 1500 trucks for sale in Holly, MI
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright White Clearcoat
- Int. color
- Diesel Gray/Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 15-21
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- HEMI 5.7L V-8 variable valve control, regular unleaded, engine w
- Stock #
- P8223
- VIN
- 1C6RR7TT7HS573996
Features
- Convenience
- Keyless Entry
- Navigation System
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Dick Scott Motor MallReviews
Dick Scott Motor Mall review
I highly recommend. I am not someone who appreciates "pushy" sales reps. I worked with Bill Kiesgen and he was very helpful and proactive. I had spoke with him over the phone regarding the vehicle I was interested in and he had it ready to test drive when I got there. Afterwards we met up to discuss the vehicle and he answered all my questions and was very understanding. My visit quick and to the point. I was able to sleep on my decision and the following day we had everything ready to go. Now I am a proud owner of a new vehicle. Thank you for your efficient service!
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright White Clearcoat
- Int. color
- Diesel Gray/Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 15-21
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- HEMI 5.7L V-8 variable valve control, regular unleaded, engine w
- Stock #
- P8223
- VIN
- 1C6RR7TT7HS573996
Features
- Convenience
- Keyless Entry
- Navigation System
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Dick Scott Motor MallReviews
Dick Scott Motor Mall review
I highly recommend. I am not someone who appreciates "pushy" sales reps. I worked with Bill Kiesgen and he was very helpful and proactive. I had spoke with him over the phone regarding the vehicle I was interested in and he had it ready to test drive when I got there. Afterwards we met up to discuss the vehicle and he answered all my questions and was very understanding. My visit quick and to the point. I was able to sleep on my decision and the following day we had everything ready to go. Now I am a proud owner of a new vehicle. Thank you for your efficient service!
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright White
- Int. color
- Diesel Grey/Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 17-12.1
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- HEMI 5.7L V-8 variable valve control, regular unleaded, engine w
- Stock #
- 729351
- VIN
- 1C6RR7FT3HS729351
Features
- Entertainment
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Marsh Auto Sales LLCReviews
Marsh Auto Sales LLC review
The sales staff at this dealership were very helpful and responsive. They answered all my questions quickly, and followed up to provide additional information.
2017 RAM 1500 review
I purchased many different trucks over the years and landed recently on my new to me 2017 Ram Laramie 4x4. It does everything well and tows like a semi 5.7 Hemi with 3.92 rear gear and the 8-speed transmission.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Gray
- Int. color
- Diesel Grey/Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 16-10.2
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Pentastar 3.6L V-6 DOHC, variable valve control, regular unleade
- Stock #
- 637561
- VIN
- 1C6RR7KG2HS637561
Features
- Entertainment
- USB Port
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Marsh Auto Sales LLCReviews
Marsh Auto Sales LLC review
Great experience and stayed late to help us get in a great vehicle, Joey took great care of us
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$16,302
Est. $295/mo LaFontaine Chrysler Jeep Dodge RAM Fenton
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Brilliant Black Crystal Pearlcoat
- Int. color
- Diesel Gray/Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 16-23
- Fuel type
- Regular gasoline
- Transmission
- 8-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- Pentastar 3.6L V-6 DOHC, variable valve control, regular gasolin
- Stock #
- 6U0704V
- VIN
- 1C6RR7KG2HS706698
Features
- Convenience
- Keyless Entry
- Navigation System
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
LaFontaine Chrysler Jeep Dodge RAM FentonReviews
LaFontaine Chrysler Jeep Dodge RAM Fenton review
Excellent buying experience. Scott H is a great person to deal with and takes great care of his customers. I drive a long way to get to Fenton but is worth the drive.
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Not Priced
Est. $0/mo Serra Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAM Lake Orion
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Flame Red Clearcoat
- Int. color
- Diesel Gray/Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 16-23
- Fuel type
- Regular gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Pentastar 3.6L V-6 DOHC, variable valve control, regular gasolin
- Stock #
- 262576B
- VIN
- 1C6RR7LG5HS527814
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Navigation System
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Serra Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAM Lake OrionReviews
Serra Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAM Lake Orion review
I had a very Great experience at Serra and would go back and lease again
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Maximum Steel Metallic Clearcoat
- Int. color
- Diesel Gray/Black
- Drivetrain
- Rear-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 17-25
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 8-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- Pentastar 3.6L V-6 DOHC, variable valve control, regular unleade
- Stock #
- C31179
- VIN
- 3C6JR6DG2HG764869
Features
- Convenience
- Keyless Entry
- Navigation System
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Jerry Haggerty ChevroletReviews
Jerry Haggerty Chevrolet review
Mike and team were wonderful ! Great customer service . Wonderful experience buying my Equinox. Would recommend .
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Brilliant Black Crystal Pearlcoat
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 15-21
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- HEMI 5.7L V-8 variable valve control, regular unleaded, engine w
- Stock #
- UC1130
- VIN
- 1C6RR7YT2HS801556
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Tow Hitch
- Tow Hooks
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Heller Chevrolet GMCReviews
Heller Chevrolet GMC review
Great people. Todd so professional & nice to speak with. They like to work with customers and make it happen.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Brilliant Black Crystal Pearlcoat
- Int. color
- Diesel Gray/Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 15-21
- Fuel type
- Regular gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- HEMI 5.7L V-8 variable valve control, regular gasoline, engine w
- Stock #
- HS575075STK
- VIN
- 1C6RR7FT1HS575075
Features
- Convenience
- Keyless Entry
- Navigation System
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
DriveTime of EastpointeReviews
DriveTime of Eastpointe review
the sales rep was great, the experience was great overall. we were able to communicate really well. leaving as a happy customer. thank you. 100% recommend
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Granite Crystal Metallic Clearcoat
- Int. color
- Diesel Gray/Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 15-21
- Fuel type
- Regular gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- HEMI 5.7L V-8 variable valve control, regular gasoline, engine w
- Stock #
- HG709163A
- VIN
- 3C6RR7LT7HG709163
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Navigation System
- Power Folding Mirrors
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Suburban Cadillac of PlymouthReviews
Suburban Cadillac of Plymouth review
I had an amazing experience purchasing my used 2020 Jeep Cherokee back in May 2025. The salesman, John Griffin was absolutely fantastic! From the moment I shared my requirements and budget, he worked to make it all happen. He secured a great financing rate and found the Jeep of my dreams. I couldn't be happier with my purchase and I absolutely love my Jeep! John, your professionalism and salesmanship truly stood out, making this car-buying experience one of the best I've ever had. Thank you once again, John, and the entire team at Suburban Cadillac of Plymouth, for making my car-buying dreams come true. I will definitely be recommending your services to friends and family.
2017 RAM 1500 review
Outstanding truck Ride quality is best in class as is fit and finish. Drive a Chevy/gmc/ford and then drive a Ram. Just make sure you get a hemi.
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$21,313
Est. $385/mo Feldman Chrysler Jeep of Livonia
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright White Clearcoat
- Int. color
- Diesel Gray/Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 15-21
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 8-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- HEMI 5.7L V-8 variable valve control, regular unleaded, engine w
- Stock #
- PRA726801
- VIN
- 1C6RR7LT9HS726801
Features
- Convenience
- Keyless Entry
- Navigation System
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Tow Hitch
- Tow Hooks
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Feldman Chrysler Jeep of LivoniaReviews
Feldman Chrysler Jeep of Livonia review
I was very pleased. Steve was efficient and informative. He gave us time to talk about decision.
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$66,444
New 2027 RAM 1500 Big Horn/Lone Star 
$66,444
New 2027 RAM 1500 Big Horn/Lone Star 
$74,804
New 2027 RAM 1500 Laramie 
$58,485
New 2026 RAM 1500 Laramie 
$72,972
New 2026 RAM 1500 ST 
$44,535
New 2026 RAM 1500 Tradesman 
$83,199
New 2026 RAM 1500 RHO Crew Cab 4x4 5'7' Box 
$58,853
New 2027 RAM 1500 Big Horn/Lone Star 
$55,295
New 2026 RAM 1500 Big Horn/Lone Star 
$50,706
New 2026 RAM 1500 Big Horn/Lone Star 
$52,970
New 2026 RAM 1500 Express 
$59,601
New 2026 RAM 1500 Laramie -
$21,258
Est. $384/mo Suburban Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAM of Ann Arbor
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright White Clearcoat
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 15-21
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 8-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 5.7L V8 16V MPFI OHV
- Stock #
- HS855351P
- VIN
- 1C6RR7UT4HS855351
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Suburban Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAM of Ann ArborReviews
Suburban Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAM of Ann Arbor review
Stephany worked really hard to make sure the car was exactly what I was looking for. I was very specific with my requirements and she made sure I was taken care of. It was a rainy day & she had my car in the showroom so I could inspect it thoroughly before taking it for a drive. I was impressed with her attention to detail!
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$18,779
Est. $339/mo Suburban Ford of Sterling Heights
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Granite Crystal Metallic
- Int. color
- Diesel Gray
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 16-23
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 8-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 5.7L V8 16V MPFI OHV
- Stock #
- AKHS848418
- VIN
- 1C6RR7FT1HS848418
Features
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Suburban Ford of Sterling HeightsReviews
Suburban Ford of Sterling Heights review
My recall service appointment on 9/7/23 was reschedule by Jason Jackson. The reason was the tech going to be out for my original appointment which was 9/8/23. Jason Jackson service consultant at Suburban took care of me very well, I also ask him can we do the works package for an oil change with tire rotation. He said sure we can fit that in with your recall. Jason customer service is always on point and over the top.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright Silver Metallic Clearcoat
- Int. color
- Red/Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 15-21
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- HEMI 5.7L V-8 variable valve control, regular unleaded, engine w
- Stock #
- HS571187
- VIN
- 1C6RR7YT7HS571187
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Tow Hitch
- Tow Hooks
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Snethkamp Chrysler-Jeep-Dodge-RAMReviews
Snethkamp Chrysler-Jeep-Dodge-RAM review
I have purchased TWO vehicles from this dealer. First purchase, was easy peezy. In and out but my 2nd vehicle I purchased their gap insurance (major bad idea) because the vehicle was totaled and I had to put in a gap claim. Make a long story short, Smart Auto tried everything they could to NOT pay off my gap claim but the finance lady Debbie wasn't having it. I called her with my concern and she called those folks up and handled this for me. 4 months AFTER the insurance agent paid the claim, Debbie put fire to the gap company's xxx and guess what? My claim will be paid in 5 days. I'm so happy and forever grateful for her because good help is so hard to come buy. I think I'm going to buy another vehicle from them just off this service alone!
2017 RAM 1500 review
Bought it at 40k miles no issues so far. Over 100k now. I have the ram boxes on the sides for my everyday tools, spacey crew cab seats. 4wd, loud alpine speakers. I average 17 mpg. I recently had a base model 2014 ram that went over 170k miles and all I ever did was change the oil (synthetic) every 5k miles. Not 1 issue. Never had any problems with my ram trucks.
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$6,314
Est. $114/mo LaFontaine Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram and Fiat of Lansing
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright White Clearcoat
- Int. color
- Diesel Gray
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 16-23
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 8-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 5.7L V8 16V MPFI OHV
- Stock #
- 6L5491W
- VIN
- 3C6RR7LT8HG510932
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Navigation System
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
LaFontaine Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram and Fiat of LansingReviews
LaFontaine Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram and Fiat of Lansing review
Had an appointment they met; had an estimate in the allotted time they said; repairs completed on time. Highly recommend their service station in Lansing on Pennsylvania Ave.
2017 RAM 1500 review
I purchased a 2017 Rebel from the show room floor and haven't been disappointed. We've put 115k miles on it in 7 years and have no issues or complaints. I use it for light towing at times and have had no issues but mostly it's a daily driver. Great power, spacious and comfortable interior. Only a couple things I don't like, 1. the door hinges are junk and squeak most all the time. 2. the tiny led light that shines down on the center console cannot be turned off or dimmed. 3. Mopar service departments are the worst!! I can tell SOOO many stories of how our local Mopar service department in Brownsburg, Indiana should be run out of business!! Estes Dodge...don't waste your time!
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$13,995
Est. $253/mo Sterling Heights Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAM
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright Silver Clearcoat Metallic
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 16-23
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 8-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 5.7L V8 16V MPFI OHV
- Stock #
- T26904A
- VIN
- 1C6RR7MT0HS745882
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Navigation System
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- Premium Sound System
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Sterling Heights Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAMReviews
Sterling Heights Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAM review
I purchased a truck from this dealership because of the great customer service from Saker Kaji. There was no hassle and he got the job done. It was a great pleasure to work with him. i will definitely use his services in the future.
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$16,000
Est. $289/mo Dick Scott Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAM
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Flame Red Clearcoat
- Int. color
- Diesel Gray/Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 15-21
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- HEMI 5.7L V-8 variable valve control, regular unleaded, engine w
- Stock #
- R267103A
- VIN
- 3C6RR7KT1HG784331
Features
- Convenience
- Keyless Entry
- Navigation System
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Dick Scott Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAMReviews
Dick Scott Chrysler Dodge Jeep RAM review
Best buying experience of my life! Extremely transparent the whole way through. It was also the quickest I’ve ever been able to buy a car. Everyone was so nice! I cannot recommend them enough. If you need to buy a car this is the place to go!
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$16,381
Est. $296/mo McDonald GMC Cadillac
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright Silver Metallic Clearcoat
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 15-21
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- HEMI 5.7L V-8 variable valve control, regular unleaded, engine w
- Stock #
- 15812553
- VIN
- 1C6RR7MTXHS812553
Features
- Convenience
- Cooled Seats
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- Premium Sound System
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
Dealer
McDonald GMC CadillacReviews
McDonald GMC Cadillac review
Had a small issue but they took care of me. Picked my vehicle up from my place of employment and brought it back to me.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Brilliant Black Crystal Pearl
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 15-11
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- HEMI 5.7L V-8 variable valve control, regular gasoline, engine w
- Stock #
- 42779-AFC
- VIN
- 1C6RR7MT5HS857674
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Navigation System
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Showcase Auto Sales LLCReviews
Showcase Auto Sales LLC review
I purchased a ford expedition through Jacob Reynolds and found it to be a pleasant experience. Jacob was helpful and professional. I was impressed by Showcase auto sales although you have to drive and check out the cars you are considering. The one I bought had a couple of problems that I found during my test drive and when I brought them up they had them repaired at no extra cost to me before I took possession of the vehicle. Now i am very happy with my purchase and would recommend Showcase auto for finding a vehicle.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Bright White Clearcoat
- Int. color
- Diesel Gray/Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 15-21
- Fuel type
- Regular gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- HEMI 5.7L V-8 variable valve control, regular gasoline, engine w
- Stock #
- 42824-AFC
- VIN
- 1C6RR7LT8HS796743
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Navigation System
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Tow Hitch
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Showcase Auto Sales LLCReviews
Showcase Auto Sales LLC review
Jason helped me find a car that works for me. It had an issue and they fixed it before I picked it up. Yes, some cars are not in great shape, but you need to inspect them yourself.
2017 RAM 1500 review
My only problem is changing a headlight bulb you need to be a mechanic. Probably one of the hardest to replace on any vehicle. Half to take apart a lot just to get to it. Completely ridiculous.
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