Used compact SUVs for sale near Rancho Santa Fe, CA
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Red Diamond
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 24-31
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- 2.5L I-4 gasoline direct injection, DOHC, variable valve control
- Stock #
- 58015425
- VIN
- JA4J3VA8XSZ016065
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Avis Car Sales VistaReviews
2025 Mitsubishi Outlander review
I purchased 2 new Mitsubishi Outlanders after doing Internet research on currently available mid-sized SUVs. A test drive nailed the choice. The 2025 model introduced several changes that have addressed prior criticisms about vague steering and hood vibrations and ride. The fit and finish of both exterior and interior is excellent, typical of a Japanese car and as good or better than the Toyota RAV4 or Nissan Rogue that were being considered (the Outlander and the Rogue share the same platform, but IMHO the Outlander is the better rendition). The interior of the SE trim is very plush at this price point with leatherette and suede seating that is supportive and "hugs" you and looks and feels better than more expensive luxury SUVs in this size class such as the Lincoln Corsair and Aviator. The standard Yamaha audio system produces astonishingly good sound with either Bluetooth audio or Sirius XM. The Outlander supports Android Auto, and its navigation is excellent. Steering feel is excellent and well-weighted, and braking is strong. The Outlander has a surprisingly small turning circle. The electronics assists and displays work flawlessly, especially the adaptive cruise control and lane-keeping and both front and rear parking assistance via the good-sized infotainment display screen, which also provides an overhead overall view (AI?). While the Outlander does have standard third-row seating, the seats and leg room are miniscule (suitable only for very small children or pets) and hard to access, but I plan to never use them for seating and keep them folded down to maximize cargo carrying space, which is even more generous with the second-row seatbacks folded down. Exterior styling is very bold and contemporary and distinctive, especially the front styling and the wheels; it has grown on me. The 2025 Outlander thankfully does not have that horrible stop-start feature where the engine shuts off if stopped at a traffic light, and in hot and humid Florida, the AC is not interrupted like on other new cars. The transmission shift lever is not intuitive to use, but eventually you get used to it (IMHO a simple rotary knob would be easier to use). The Outlander has a very generous power train warranty and comes with the initial three oil change services included. The horsepower is modest but more than adequate for city and suburban driving, and the CVT seems well mated to the engine and drives very smoothly. If Mitsubishi added a turbocharged version, that would certainly boost the acceleration.
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Alfa White
- Int. color
- Black / Red
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 22-28
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 8-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 2.0L I4 16V GDI SOHC Turbo
- Stock #
- M7D19712
- VIN
- ZASPAKBN0M7D19712
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Folding Mirrors
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
BMW of CarlsbadReviews
BMW of Carlsbad review
Excellent service from Arthur and Elvis on first maintenance of my 2026 X6 and also helped me with understanding radio and AC functions and dhow they work. Easy to schedule, wait for car and then drive off.
2021 Alfa Romeo Stelvio review
I have had this vehicle for 4 years and couldn’t be happier with my decision to buy it. It drives great, more like a sports car which I have owned. It’s been extremely reliable with no expenses other than maintenance thus far and it looks great. Best looking SUV out there.
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- White
- Int. color
- TAN
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 20-27
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Turbo Gas
- Stock #
- 70028517
- VIN
- WA1L2AFP4HA032323
Features
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Roof Rack
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
CarMax ModestoReviews
CarMax Modesto review
The sales associate was very polite, knew her information regarding the vehicle I wanted to purchase and worked with me to accommodate my schedule which had to be changed a couple of times.
2017 Audi Q5 review
I was very unsure about stepping out get a car that I will own without a co signer I’m very grateful I was able to do it by myself
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Brown
- Int. color
- BLACK
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-24
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Turbo Gas
- Stock #
- 28773390
- VIN
- KNDPRCA67M7850469
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Navigation System
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Lane Departure Warning
- Seating
- Leather Seats
Dealer
CarMax CentennialReviews
CarMax Centennial review
I saw the car I wanted on cars.com I emailed the dealer and they quickly responded. They held the car for me and I went in a bought it the following day. I was at the dealer for maybe 1 hour.. in and out.. best buying experience yet. My sales rep. Noted a few small requests I asked for and they were done before I took the car home.
2021 Kia Sportage review
Great car for the money, great service from Kia of Attleboro Roy Silveira was great to work with. Car runs great heated seats a bonus has good pick up for a 4 cylinder
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$32,000
Est. $555/mo Temecula Hyundai
Check Availability Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Pearl White Multi-Coat
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- Fuel type
- Electric
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Electric
- Stock #
- TT6143
- VIN
- 7SAYGDEE1PA093634
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- Premium Sound System
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
Temecula HyundaiReviews
Temecula Hyundai review
This was by far the easiest experience buying a car I've had. Leased a 2018 ionic electric, when I did my commute I quickly realized electric wasnt going to work. Called the dealer and spoke with Pedro the sales manager and Lauren the sales rep sho helped me originally. They both were extremely helpful, and even though they didnt have too, they took the electric ionic back and I walked out with the hybrid version. The exchange was simple, professional, and easy. If you want service beyond anything you'll experience come to Temecula Hyundai.
2023 Tesla Model Y review
Pros- -low to no maintenance cost -Technology is unmatched by any competitor -Quick and agile 0-60 in less the 4 secs -added security features are extremely useful -App is user friendly Con- -not comfortable to drive for long distances -limited rear cargo space for large items -the interior material is subpar -tires wear much quicker -depreciating at much faster pace than others
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$44,991
Est. $781/mo Mercedes-Benz of Temecula
Check Availability Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Black
- Int. color
- Macchiato Beige
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- Fuel type
- Electric
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Electric
- Stock #
- T16995A
- VIN
- W1N9M0KB8SN128642
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- Premium Sound System
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
Mercedes-Benz of TemeculaReviews
Mercedes-Benz of Temecula review
MB Temecula did a great maintenance service and fairly priced. And our Service Advisor - Sam Lafoca was very helpful and made sure we are well informed! Thanks Sam!
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Vik Black
- Int. color
- Obsidian Black
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- Fuel type
- Electric
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Electric
- Stock #
- PT6043
- VIN
- KMUKCDTC3PU014634
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Cooled Seats
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Premium Sound System
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Roof Rack
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
Temecula HyundaiReviews
Temecula Hyundai review
NUMBER SIX. I only buy at this dealership. The staff are the ultimate professionals. From the sales manager Pedro Rodriguez to the salesperson David Alarcon and finance officer Brian Thinnes, you can't find a better team to ensure your purchase is exactly what you want and perfectly suited to your needs and finances. I won't go anywhere else but to Temecula Hyundai. My service appointments are always handled professionally and I never have any surprises. So when my daughter was unhappy with two dealerships she was working with through her credit union, I brought her here. From Pedro ensuring the right car was brought up for her to test drive with David to David expertly guiding her through the delivery process and Brian enduring a quick finance experience, we were in and out in slightly more than two hours with s new Sonata Sport in the exact color my daughter wanted with all the features she asked for in the newly detailed car! She said this was the best experience she ever had buying a car. TEMECULA HYUNDAI IS THE BEST DEALERSHIP IN THE INLAND EMPIRE!
2023 Genesis GV60 review
A stylish, thoughtfully designed vehicle with great driving/handling and convenience features. Excellent EV specs and performance- fast charging, excellent for daily driving, and good range for trips. Best of all it is a great price value when compared to other luxury SUVs that it is equal to or outperforms.
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Crystal Black Pearl
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 40-34
- Fuel type
- Hybrid
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- 2L I-4 gasoline direct injection, DOHC, i-VTEC variable valve co
- Stock #
- PT6123
- VIN
- 7FARS6H58RE052497
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
Dealer
Temecula HyundaiReviews
Temecula Hyundai review
Very good customer service. They worked with me and I got the deal I wanted. The only thing they could add is hot tea for the non coffee drinkers.
2024 Honda CR-V Hybrid review
Good handling car in all weather. Blind spots in back causes me to pay extra attention to people coming up on my sides. Great mileage if you avoid excessive speed. Quite riding vehicle.
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Surf Blue w/Dark Gray Roof
- Int. color
- Gray/Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 27-33
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Nu 2L I-4 DOHC, D-CVVT variable valve control, regular unleaded,
- Stock #
- TT6070
- VIN
- KM8K22AA7KU396103
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Roof Rack
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- Lane Departure Warning
- Stability Control
Dealer
Temecula HyundaiReviews
Temecula Hyundai review
I drove over 50 miles to check out the suv I’ve been looking at, while emailing back and for with Sale Man Jacob. He was a very helpful man and so Corey was also.
2019 Hyundai KONA review
I super so love my car. I get all of my services done at Rick Hendrick Chevy Buick GMC. Thomas Mason is my advisor and he always gets me in. I like that he will tell whats going on before they complete the work. Keep up the good work.
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$39,996
Est. $694/mo Mercedes-Benz of Temecula
Check Availability Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Grey
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 24-32
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- 2L I-4 gasoline direct injection, DOHC, CAMTRONIC variable valve
- Stock #
- PL1012
- VIN
- W1N4M4HB4RW353878
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- Premium Sound System
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
Mercedes-Benz of TemeculaReviews
Mercedes-Benz of Temecula review
Bruce provided excellent service as well as a great attitude. He kept me up to date with anything wrong they found with my car. I’ll definitely be back. Appreciate you Bruce and the whole service staff.
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Grey
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 27-32
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- 1.5L I-4 gasoline direct injection, DOHC, variable valve control
- Stock #
- T17003B
- VIN
- 2HKRS4H74PH419590
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
Mercedes-Benz of TemeculaReviews
Mercedes-Benz of Temecula review
What a great dealership. Got a great deal on a 2018 E 400 coupe. Our sales rep, Geordan Furlow, took great care of us and Huck Mashfe made sure that everything went smoothly. After we finalized the purchase, Geordan spent 45 minutes with us making sure we understood all of the safety and convenience features and got them set up the way we wanted them. I've bought a lot of cars over the years and this was the best dealer experience I've ever had.
2023 Honda CR-V review
I traded in my 2021 Honda CRV, this 2023 CRV rides smoother and looks more pleasing to me. Good on Gas too! I live in the Poconos, some roads are not smooth this car drives over these roads and gives me a more comfortable ride.
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$35,991
Est. $625/mo Mercedes-Benz of Temecula
Check Availability Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Graphite
- Int. color
- Macadamia Leath
- Drivetrain
- Rear-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 25-32
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- 2L I-4 gasoline direct injection, DOHC, variable valve control,
- Stock #
- T17042A
- VIN
- W1NKM4GB6PF050610
Features
- Convenience
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Premium Sound System
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
Mercedes-Benz of TemeculaReviews
Mercedes-Benz of Temecula review
My Service Advisor, Jose provided me the detailed information about my service that I needed. He was knowledgeable, professional and guided me through options. He did not try to “sell” or pressure me which is why I would highly recommend Jose especially because of his Knowlege & expertise.
2023 Mercedes-Benz GLC 300 review
This car is amazing. I have the amg night package on it which looks incredibly sleek and sporty. It drives like a dream and is easily the best comfort along with its maneuverability. Overall would 100% recommend this car for any category of driver.
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$47,127
New 2026 Toyota bZ Limited
$46,681
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$43,585
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$33,541
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$33,495
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$53,665
New 2026 Mercedes-Benz GLC 300 Base
$56,785
New 2026 Mercedes-Benz GLC 300 Base
$57,300
New 2026 Mercedes-Benz GLC 300 Base
$61,315
New 2026 Mercedes-Benz GLC 300 Base
$61,365
New 2026 Mercedes-Benz GLC 300 Base
$56,625
New 2026 Mercedes-Benz GLC 300 Base
$54,615
New 2026 Mercedes-Benz GLC 300 Base -





Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Hampton Gray
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 25-33
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 8-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 2.5L I4 16V PDI DOHC
- Stock #
- SH545235
- VIN
- 5NMJB3DE9SH545235
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Power Liftgate
- Entertainment
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
Dealer
Coastline CDJRReviews
2025 Hyundai TUCSON review
Absolutely love purchasing this car I love the interior and how it drives and love the color of it it’s my dream car very satisfied
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Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Granite Crystal Clearcoat Metallic
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 16-21
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 5-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 3.6L V6 24V MPFI DOHC
- Stock #
- GL237115
- VIN
- 1C4BJWDG4GL237115
Features
- Convenience
- Keyless Entry
- Entertainment
- CD Player
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
Coastline CDJRReviews
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited review
The dealer and sales people everyone was amazing. G was awesome! He stayed late and worked with me through everything! I could not have asked for a better experience with everything that happened this day.
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$27,706
Est. $481/mo Mercedes-Benz of Laguna Niguel
Check Availability Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Polymetal Gray Metallic
- Int. color
- Red
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 23-29
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- SKYACTIV-G 2.5L I-4 gasoline direct injection, DOHC, variable va
- Stock #
- AL00623
- VIN
- JM3KFBCLXR0534815
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
Mercedes-Benz of Laguna NiguelReviews
Mercedes-Benz of Laguna Niguel review
Sales customer service was the best experience ever ! Candace could not have been nicer, more accommodating and made the process painless. Alex facilitated the transaction and the same. we are very happy and would continue to buy from her and Alex! You can buy a car anyplace, why not where they take great care of you instead of the stress normally associated with buying a car. 10 stars....
2024 Mazda CX-5 review
This is my first CX-5. I love it. Previously I drove a mazda tribute which was a 6 cylinder. I was reluctant to purchase a smaller vehicle with a smaller engine, but I’ve been pleased. My only negative comment is regarding the leg room in the back seat. It’s not great but workable for most average size adults.
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$38,995
Est. $677/mo Gosch Ford of Temecula
Check Availability Quick view Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Quicksilver
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- Fuel type
- Electric
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Electric
- Stock #
- 825488
- VIN
- 7SAYGDEE5SF255180
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Heated Steering Wheel
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Liftgate
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- Premium Sound System
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Sunroof/Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rain Sensing Wipers
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
Gosch Ford of TemeculaReviews
Gosch Ford of Temecula review
Good overall experience. As always, the dealership tried to slip in extra fees. This does not make this dealership any worse than others, but I won't give 5 stars when this happens. In our case, the sticker price was not what we saw when we sat down to negotiate. There was a $1,300 charge added for a security feature the dealership had installed. I had that removed: sticker price on a used car should be everything that the car is. I did not choose a $1300 option. The dealership worked with us and was friendly, except for the finance guy. It was late at night and he got a little snippy.
2025 Tesla Model Y review
I got a significant discount by purchasing a Tesla from inventory plus the 7500 tax credit It has more than met my expectations. Fun car to drive even without self driving
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