Used Honda cars for sale in Carson, CA
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Lunar Silver Metallic
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 33-42
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- 1.5L I-4 direct injection, DOHC, VTEC variable valve control, in
- Stock #
- RH300589
- VIN
- 2HGFE1F74RH300589
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Stability Control
Dealer
Lexus of CerritosReviews
Lexus of Cerritos review
I have been coming to the same dealership since 2018 and have zero complaints. I don't feel like I am being "sold" too and my service rep is upmost and honest about what is required for general maintenance. I choose whether to have it serviced there or pass. I will continue to tell others to go there and hope they experience the same quality of service as I do.
2024 Honda Civic review
Honda Civic EXL hatchback is a great car. I had a 2018 EXL coupe and was reluctant to have a four door. The 2024 is a quality made vehicle. I couldn't be any happier.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Silver
- Int. color
- Gray
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 30-38
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic CVT
- Engine
- 2.0L I4 16V GDI DOHC
- Stock #
- P2455A
- VIN
- 19XFL2H51NE017336
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Entertainment
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Lane Departure Warning
- Stability Control
Dealer
Nissan of TorranceReviews
Nissan of Torrance review
Mandez Jones was very patient, professional, helpful and HONEST with assisting me in purchasing a vehicle. He represents Nissan of Torrance very well.
2022 Honda Civic review
Great car. Smooth and responsive drive. Nice safety and other features - especially love apple CarPlay. I would buy again in a heartbeat. Manual is poorly written. Suggest Honda puts videos explaining features and "how to" and/or FAQ clips on their website. Put link to videos in manual.
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$34,017
Est. $641/mo Weir Canyon Honda
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- White
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 46-41
- Fuel type
- Hybrid
- Transmission
- Automatic CVT
- Engine
- 2.0L I4 16V GDI DOHC Hybrid
- Stock #
- 00424203
- VIN
- 1HGCY2F76SA065455
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Entertainment
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
Weir Canyon HondaReviews
Weir Canyon Honda review
Wonderful service and staff. Angel was my point of contact. Explained everything clearly and was transparent. Helped out with all my questions and made the process smooth. Worked with Kevin in finance. Super cool dude who loves to keep it light and help his customers. Would definitely purchase another vehicle here again. Thank you!
2025 Honda Accord Hybrid review
This is the 4th Accord I've owned...and it is the best yet. I purchased the Touring model, which has all the bells and whistles. I was able to get a great deal on this car and have not regretted my decision. My only detraction was on the Comfort Rating. I have to get use to entering and exiting a sedan, which is lower and not as easy as my Honda CR-V, which was my trade-in.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Gray
- Int. color
- BLACK
- Drivetrain
- Four-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 25-30
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Gas
- Stock #
- 28976784
- VIN
- 3CZRZ2H50SM759816
Features
- Convenience
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Lane Departure Warning
Dealer
CarMax West SaharaReviews
CarMax West Sahara review
Best car buying experience my wife and I have ever had. They still use the age old "up" system in greeting walk in prospects, which is fair to the sales people, but we didn't feel like we were just a number. No price negotiations here as the posted price is what it is and the sales people don't work on commission. We had searched their inventory via internet and indicated the vehicle which we were interested in looking at. It was parked at the front entrance waiting for us when we arrived at our appointment time. We ended up buying it. Will buy our next car here too.
2025 Honda HR-V review
Love the car....I have 2 concerns. First, the driver's seat is not comfortable (this is my wife's car) ....the other seats are fine. This is weird. We have the all wheeled drive version. It loves gasoline !!! My Toyota Corolla gets 38-40 mpg with a smaller but peppier engine. This HR-V Gets between 25-28.....not sure why. HOWEVER. This car drives like a dream... VERY SMOOTH. Love the car !!!
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Tan
- Int. color
- TAN
- Drivetrain
- Rear-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 27-37
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- Gas
- Stock #
- 70283697
- VIN
- 1HGCR2F34GA181545
Features
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Backup Camera
Dealer
CarMax TucsonReviews
CarMax Tucson review
armax sales people were wonder to work with. No pressure, just their desire to show you a car that you would be interested in. Our salesman showed us the car we wanted and after the test drive, choose to look for something else. He inquired to our desires and slowly narrowed down the types of vehicle we might likie based off of our comments. We went from a Dodge Charger to looking at luxury type cars. Very easy to work with.
2016 Honda Accord review
I did some serious research and decided a Honda Accord Coupe built from 2015 to 2020 with the big V6 was a great car to buy used if I could find one with low enough mileage. I found one in Florida using Carvana that only had 29,600 miles on it. It helped that the car also has about all the neat accessories Honda put on 2016 high end Accords. The car is pretty and quick and comfortable. Three important boxes get checked out front. I love the car.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Lunar Silver Metallic
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 30-37
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- CVT
- Engine
- 2L I-4 gasoline direct injection, DOHC, i-VTEC variable valve co
- Stock #
- U28848
- VIN
- 2HGFE2F57RH519504
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
Dealer
Capistrano MazdaReviews
Capistrano Mazda review
Great experience! Friendly and helpful staff! Rick was great!!! A pleasant experience which sometimes can be a stressful experience when purchasing a new car! Paul was great going over the finance and service paperwork! Definitely tell my friends about Capistrano Mazda if they are interested in a new car!!
2024 Honda Civic review
Heather was an amazing sales woman, I truly appreciate her hard work for making today happen! I purchased my first car by myself. I can’t wait to love my new Honda Civic
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Platinum White Pearl
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 28-34
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 1-Speed CVT w/OD
- Engine
- 1.5L I-4 direct injection, DOHC, variable valve control, interco
- Stock #
- MH403205
- VIN
- 2HKRW1H59MH403205
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- Premium Sound System
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
Dealer
South County LexusReviews
South County Lexus review
Sale man Mohammed and the Financial Manager Dannie are very friendly and helpful. Thay were willing to help me out any problems I have, even cancel the contract without any fee and minutes. Very plased experiences.
2021 Honda CR-V review
Roomy , great gas mileage. Only problem is loud road noise, sometimes problem connecting phone to radio. Heat and air work really good. Nice interior, window fogs a lot.
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Vehicle Information
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 20-25
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 9-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 3.5L V6 24V GDI SOHC
- Stock #
- LB002685
- VIN
- 5FNYF7H50LB002685
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Moonroof
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
Valencia BMWReviews
Valencia BMW review
The overall experience was a pleasure. Jade Ramos is a great salesperson. She was super helpful and very responsive, even on her days off. The sales manager, Dave Erickson, didn't play the sales game. he gave me the price that I was looking for with no haggling. The only problem is that now my wife wants one too.
2020 Honda Passport review
I have one suggestion, add a fan switch on the steering wheel, it’s had to adjust while driving because the buttons are hard to see. The seat crevice between the center are hard to get into to clean or if something falls in you have to get a stick for help. One major problem is the air conditioner compressor died, the car is only 6years old. 60k miles.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Crystal Black Pearl
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 22-32
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- 2L I-4 direct injection, DOHC, i-VTEC variable valve control, in
- Stock #
- TLA028900
- VIN
- 1HGCV2F34LA028900
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
Dealer
Crown LexusReviews
Crown Lexus review
Everyone was professional and went far above my expectations. The process went very smooth, and was informed every step of the way. The communication from everyone involved was right on point. Thank you to everyone.
2020 Honda Accord review
Love my 2020 Accord EX-L...very roomy and it has a very comfortable interior. It has a few things missing that surprises me on an EX-L trim such as courtesy lights in the doors. Honda has the knockouts but no wiring harness. The lights are only available on the most expensive Touring model which is ridiculous as this is a $20 item. Honda also has chosen to not have the lights on the trunk light up when you hit the brakes...they are only reflectors but do light up on the Touring model. I HOPE AND PRAY THAT MY PAINT DOES NOT CHIP OFF LIKE IS HAPPENING ON SO MANY HONDA'S. I had the paint chip off the car on my 2008 Civic and on the roof of my 2014 PIlot. Of course Honda takes no responsibility for this even though its happening to countless Honda customers across many years and models. They have already chosen to remove the sunroof as standard on many Pilot models as well.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Nordic Forest Pearl
- Int. color
- Gray
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 26-32
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- 2L I-4 direct injection, DOHC, i-VTEC variable valve control, re
- Stock #
- RM717057
- VIN
- 3CZRZ1H3XRM717057
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Keyless Entry
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Stability Control
Dealer
AutoNation Toyota IrvineReviews
AutoNation Toyota Irvine review
My experience was very positive which I have found in the past at other dealers not to be the case. But especially with the salesman Yuri he was incredibly helpful. I would buy from here again.
2024 Honda HR-V review
So slow it’s almost unsafe! Front seats are not comfortable. Blind spot in side mirrors. Everything else is good. Base engine needs 40 more horses. Sport trim should have a turbo engine.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Platinum White Pearl
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 29-37
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic CVT
- Engine
- 1.5L I4 16V GDI DOHC Turbo
- Stock #
- RA008870
- VIN
- 1HGCY1F27RA008870
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- USB Port
- WiFi Hotspot
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Stability Control
Dealer
Valencia BMWReviews
Valencia BMW review
No hassle approach there. Got a great deal. Quick and easy. Highly recommend. Thank you Valencia BMW!
2024 Honda Accord review
I’m a first time Honda owner and I’m extremely pleased with my purchase. I own a 2024 Accord. I chose it for its safety, functionality, and convenience features. I love it for its sleek style, design, and sophistication.
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$35,022
Est. $660/mo AutoNation Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Valencia
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Lunar Silver Metallic
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-24
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- 3.5L V-6 direct injection, i-VTEC VCM variable valve control, re
- Stock #
- RB006220
- VIN
- 5FNYF8H6XRB006220
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Power Folding Mirrors
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
Dealer
AutoNation Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram ValenciaReviews
AutoNation Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Valencia review
We had a wonderful seamless experience! Our sales person was incredible and so helpful! The dealership has exceeded our expectations!!
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$55,510
New 2026 Honda Prologue Elite 
$42,862
New 2026 Honda Ridgeline RTL 
$51,457
New 2027 Honda Odyssey Touring 
$40,827
New 2026 Honda CR-V Hybrid TrailSport 
$42,122
New 2027 Honda CR-V Hybrid TrailSport AWD 
$44,977
New 2027 Honda CR-V Hybrid Sport Touring AWD 
$33,812
New 2026 Honda Civic Hybrid Sport Touring 
$36,362
New 2026 Honda Accord Hybrid Sport 
$30,812
New 2026 Honda Civic Hybrid Sport 
$33,675
New 2026 Honda Civic Hybrid Sport Touring 
$49,467
New 2026 Honda Ridgeline Black 
$44,522
New 2027 Honda CR-V Hybrid Sport Touring -
Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Crystal Black Pearl
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- All-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 18-23
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- 10-Speed Automatic
- Engine
- 3.5L V6 24V GDI DOHC
- Stock #
- SB173075
- VIN
- 5FNYG1H63SB173075
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Power Folding Mirrors
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Moonroof
- Tow Hitch
- Tow Hooks
- Safety
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
Valencia BMWReviews
Valencia BMW review
Amazing customer service!! Brandon did everything to help and keep us comfortable. The financing teams got us out the door quick too! We will be coming back to them for our next BMW
2025 Honda Pilot review
Great SUV, very reliable, comfortable, and quiet. Smooth and great handling. I highly recommend this vehicle. Great for short commutes and long drives. Plenty of space.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Crystal Black Pearl
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 27-36
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- 2.4L I-4 direct injection, DOHC, i-VTEC variable valve control,
- Stock #
- EA276136
- VIN
- 1HGCR2F72EA276136
Features
- Convenience
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- CD Player
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Moonroof
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
Dealer
AutoNation Toyota IrvineReviews
AutoNation Toyota Irvine review
Friendly, polite and knowledgeable. He was very patient and answered all my questions. His name is Andy.
2014 Honda Accord review
This is hands down the best car I have ever owned!! I've had it 11 years and my 2014 Honda Accord has never needed a repair. I have only ever had to do regular maintenance on it (battery, brake pads, tires, etc). What an incredible value at $22K!!! One feature that has been buggy is the infotainment/Bluetooth but I can live with it.
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Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Modern Steel Metallic
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 26-34
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- 2.4L I-4 direct injection, DOHC, i-VTEC variable valve control,
- Stock #
- 262192A
- VIN
- 1HGCR2F56HA044111
Features
- Convenience
- Keyless Entry
- Entertainment
- Bluetooth®
- CD Player
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Brake Assist
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
Dealer
Galpin FordReviews
Galpin Ford review
Great attention and great cars, my agent Denis Vakhlov was awesome all the time, thanks Denis..
2017 Honda Accord review
I’m glad I got my first car back from the 1994 Honda accord Black coupe to a 2017 Honda Accord Black coupe. I only had my first car 2 months.
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$34,390
Est. $648/mo AutoNation Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Valencia
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- Modern Steel Metallic
- Int. color
- Black
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- MPG
- 19-27
- Fuel type
- Gasoline
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- 3.5L V-6 direct injection, DOHC, i-VTEC (w/VTC) variable valve c
- Stock #
- SB004248
- VIN
- 5FNYG2H42SB004248
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Power Liftgate
- Remote Start
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Rear Cross Traffic Alert
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
- Third Row Seating
Dealer
AutoNation Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram ValenciaReviews
AutoNation Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Valencia review
Very friendly and very, very helpful. I will recommend to others to go to do Dodge in Valencia I love my ram 2027
2025 Honda Pilot review
I think this is the best looking exterior of the mid size SUV mix. The interior is great, but the 9in screen is dated (updated for 26) and the cabin is a little noisy on the highway (also updated for 26 but I haven’t driven one to test it). The quality of the rear review and forward cameras is pretty good but not the crispest I’ve seen. I have the Black Edition which does a good job of reducing the plastic in the interior. I think lower trims are a bit plastic heavy. Seats are comfy, lots of space for kids and I like the removable bench for captains chairs with the option to have the bench if you need it. For a road trip, I have put 3 car seats in a row 2nd row bench to leave 3rd row flipped down for more cargo. Would not recommend that daily though. If you need 3 in one row daily you want to consider a full size but I’m just fine with 2 kids in captains chairs 2nd row and 1 in 3rd with the other half of the bench flipped down for cargo (which is sufficient for a stroller). I think that’s enough for most people. Performance is fine but nothing exciting. You don’t have the power of say an Explorer xx although I’m not sure you actually need that. Perfectly fine as a daily driver and I switch to sport mode when merging in on the highway. Reliability is top notch - routine service and you can trust you won’t need much more. Hoping to keep this 8-10 yrs and I don’t anticipate a problem. I use the dealership, but any shop should be able to work on a Honda Pilot without a problem.
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$19,675
Est. $371/mo AutoNation Toyota Irvine
Check Availability Vehicle Information
- Ext. color
- White
- Int. color
- White
- Drivetrain
- Front-wheel Drive
- Fuel type
- Hybrid
- Transmission
- Automatic
- Engine
- 1.5L I-4 DOHC, variable valve control, regular gasoline, engine
- Stock #
- JC017065
- VIN
- JHMZC5F37JC017065
Features
- Convenience
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Heated Seats
- Keyless Entry
- Keyless Start
- Navigation System
- Entertainment
- Android Auto®
- Apple CarPlay®
- Bluetooth®
- HomeLink
- Satellite Radio
- USB Port
- Exterior
- Alloy Wheels
- Safety
- Automatic Emergency Braking
- Backup Camera
- Blind Spot Monitor
- Brake Assist
- LED Headlights
- Lane Departure Warning
- Stability Control
- Seating
- Leather Seats
- Memory Seat
Dealer
AutoNation Toyota IrvineReviews
AutoNation Toyota Irvine review
Great Dealership. Top notch associates and great communication and transparency. Have been getting my Toyota serviced there since I purchased it in 2021.
2018 Honda Clarity Plug-In Hybrid review
During my 65 years of driving (so far) I have owned a marvelous range of cars---this is my favorite and the one I have kept longest and intend to stay with it as long as we both last. The market these days seems to be either cross-overs or too low to the ground for me sedans. Clarity beats those two for me.
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